Episode 452: The 5-Step Hire Right System: How Construction Business Owners Can Hire Better with Justin Landry

Todd Dawalt (00:03.34)

Justin, welcome to the podcast. let’s start with this. Give us a brief intro of the name of your company, the problems you help construction business owners solve, and it’s probably a pretty good place to start this episode.

 

Justin (00:26.158)

Todd, thank you for having us. My name is Justin Landry, and I’m the owner and founder of JL Talent Solutions.

 

For the last 10 years, I’ve been in the HR recruiting and performance management space with high-end construction companies across North America. We help companies make data-driven hires throughout all segments of their organizations. After those hires have been placed, working on performance management, key performance indicators, and other systemic tools to make sure that our expectations of our employees are commensurate with those from the beginning of their signing.

 

Todd Dawalt (01:00.846)

Mm.

 

And we have some mutual clients that we’ve worked with. We’ll talk about some of their success stories before we’re done today to hear what what sort of results people have gotten. And I think we’ve known each other for several years now. We’ve been referring clients back and forth to each other for for quite some time. And I I like I like the way you operate. It it’s very systematic, which not surprisingly is

 

What we’re all about here. So let’s jump into it. We want to give these folks listening some really practical advice. Let’s let’s start about let’s start with this. A lot of people feel stuck and they have trouble with hiring. And there’s a lot of talk about, well, you can’t find good people out there. There’s a skilled labor shortage, and all the good people are gone, you know, all of that sort of stuff. But what is the

 

You call it the reactive hiring trap. What is that and why does it keep construction business owners stuck? Can you explain that?

 

Justin (02:09.174)

Absolutely Todd. Over the last ten years, one of the things I’ve seen most resoundingly is that construction owners look to make a hire only when absolutely necessary. Only when the project manager says I quit.

 

Or the office manager says, hey, I’m pregnant with my next baby and I’m not gonna be able to make it in next week. Or when the subcontractor says, you know what, I I disagree and I’m no longer involved. In these places of desperation, so often we find contractors aiming to make a hire and then getting stuck in this desperation trap of thinking, I need to hire for skills rather than for fit.

 

And that by hiring for skills rather than fit, solving a short-term problem, but not really solving the long-term problem. So again and again I’ve seen contractors solve the skill problem, but not fit the people problem, which really talks about culture.

 

Todd Dawalt (03:09.63)

Let’s talk about culture. This is this is a big topic. What one of the questions people have might be how how do I find the person who’s a good fit for our culture? And which begs the question, what is our culture? How do we how do we even know that? So how would you advise somebody like one or one or two practical tips you would give them to figure out?

 

how to hire for a culture fit.

 

Justin (03:43.141)

I mean, first and foremost, so many professionals out there are going for a gut fit. And we’re talking about what are the personality traits, what are the cultural traits that are appropriate for me. What I would encourage that we do is think like the US Department of Labor and use K-SAO.

 

What are the knowledge, skills, ability, and other attributes that are the right things for the right position? Rather than our gut fit, let’s bring in some of that kind of more systemic brain fit. And then we can harmonize the brain and the gut fit together to talk about a concept called right fit. So those would be the concepts that I would think about when we move from this idea of gut fit to right fit.

 

And the tools that we use internally are assessment tools to do so.

 

Todd Dawalt (04:34.21)

Yeah. I think any of us who have hired more than a few people would say, Yeah, we’ve probably made a hire based on gut feel. We met the person, got a good handshake. I like the eye contact. They seem like a go getter, seem like a good fit. I’ve certainly made a a few, at least a few gut hiring fits that

 

Didn’t work out at all. It turns out I was I was not right. yeah, this is one of the things that we advise our clients on is to before you hire somebody, have take a strategic approach and start with what do you want the organization to look like.

 

Let’s start with the design of the organization. How do you divide up responsibilities between sales, pre-construction operations, and then what will this role, what skills and knowledge and abilities does this role require?

 

And that’s a great place to start. So you don’t end up where I had a conversation with a young lady years ago. We were doing a deep dive with a custom home builder. This young lady had been with this company for several months, and she said these exact words. I have no idea what I’m supposed to be doing. One one week it was marketing, one week it was helping with permits, one week it was selections.

 

And that that is not a good not a good place to be. so a lot of people would say, all right, that sounds great. I I get the fact that knee-jerk reactive hiring is is not good, but why would I why would I recruit when I I don’t have any vacancies? You know, if if all the seats are filled on the team, why would I

 

Todd Dawalt (06:30.796)

Why would I be recruiting? What what would you say to those people who are who who are asking that question?

 

Justin (06:37.016)

Well, when we look at particularly when we look at the Fortune five hundred, but when we look at any other sustainable business.

 

Recruitment is an ongoing function within those ecologies to assure that the right individuals not only are in the right seat, but that the right challenges and the right individuals are flowing through the work ecology. I think there’s a belief that once we get into a position, we’re going to stay in that position. And we’ve seen generationally in our lifetimes that change.

 

So if we look at that tone of the times in and of itself, it’s clear to say there’s a meaningful adjustment there and how these things fit.

 

So, how do we engage employees and how do we work with employees is going to evolve. And with that evolution, we’ve had to really consider those things. So, from a human resources perspective, we’re thinking about how do I inspire and engage team members in the level that they’re at, and how do I give them the skills and challenges to grow within the organization? I hear resoundingly from owners, I am doing so much of the business, I don’t think they know what I’m doing. I don’t think they understand this part of the business. I can’t let go of

 

This. So for business owners that are saying, hey, I already hired so and so and we’re done, I would say, well, think about all the other things that you’re doing. Think about all the other things you could be doing for your business. And using that EOS entrepreneurial operating system concept of delegate and elevate, let’s really extrapolate where the company is and where the company could be. I’ve sat with a few of our own mutual clients before, Todd.

 

Todd Dawalt (07:48.843)

Yeah.

 

Justin (08:15.564)

And said, hey, I think you’re hiring this project manager to solve a problem that you think exists. I think this is the problem, and this superintendent might solve that problem. To have clients come back to me and say, Justin, hmm, I hadn’t thought about that that way. Because we had lost a project manager, I thought I needed a project manager. So sometimes I think it’s repetition and we just get kind of caught in a loop. And that’s why I think people think, well, I’ve I lost the project manager. I need a project manager.

 

And if we were just constantly looking, we could kind of more assume to the tone of the times.

 

Todd Dawalt (08:50.39)

Yeah, that’s you’re right, things have changed. My my father in law retired eight or ten years ago. He started with his company.

 

fifty some years ago and he worked for the same company for forty years, never left. And that was the gold standard. That was the expectation fifty years ago. It’s very different now. And if we’re still thinking people will stay in an organization their entire career, probably ain’t gonna happen. I’m also reminded of a conversation I had with

 

A college basketball coach. My son played college basketball. And he’s this coach started recruiting my son when he was a sophomore in high school. And I chatted with him about his his approach to recruiting. And he said something that stuck with me. He said, It’s my job to know every good basketball player within a hundred mile radius of this school.

 

And if he I thought if a college basketball coach took the same approach to recruiting that most construction business owners did, when somebody graduated and left the team, that’s when they would go look for a replacement. They would only be thinking about one-for-one replacements. So yeah, I I that’s a much smarter approach. And then you also bring up a good point. so many times we think of recruiting just to replace people, but isn’t the idea to grow your people?

 

and grow them into the next level. So it’s not only recruiting to replace people who leave your organization, but for people who grow up to the next level. So you can constantly be feeding the the entry level of of your business. Yeah, it’s just a completely different mindset from that. All right, somebody quit. I need

 

Todd Dawalt (10:48.236)

To go find a body with a pulse to replace them and doing exactly what they were doing. Yeah. Completely completely different approach.

 

Justin (10:54.698)

Absolutely. You know, this idea of delegate and elevate, Todd, I think it really stands out. And one of the things that our system systematic approaches, I think, aligns on is buying back owners time. So many times when I’m working with a client

 

That’s really where where my focus lies. Hey, we hired this project manager. Now we can take on more work. What’s on your plate owner? What can we do to buy back your time? And I use a silly little joke sometimes and say, hey, when we finish this campaign with each other, I want you to come out here to Hawaii. I live in Hawaii and let’s have some Mai Ties together.

 

Sometimes I think it’s important for us in the industry to understand that, you know, to smell the roses, to see the grass, to enjoy the hard work that we’ve accomplished. I mean, we all deserve a pat on the back, listeners especially. I mean, this this is a hard industry, so you know, that counts too.

 

Todd Dawalt (11:49.357)

Yeah, yeah, that’s that’s a good point. I there are people probably listening thinking, I can’t afford to hire somebody. And I would tell you if somebody’s doing work on your team, or if you’re doing work in your business that’s less than you could have somebody do it for less than a thousand dollars an hour, you’re losing money because your time as a construction business owner is worth one thousand dollars an hour.

 

And if you do the math and you think about, well, if I spent my time on, if you spent your time on your highest and best use, selling, growing your team, networking, business development, you can sp invest 10 hours in one of those activities and generate $100,000 of profit. And so your time is worth a thousand bucks. So if you’re doing activities that are you could pay somebody $50 an hour or $100 an hour for.

 

If if you’re doing those things, you are you’re getting hit with that opportunity cost. So that’s a different way of thinking. Most people think, well, I’ll just do it myself. It’s cheaper to do it myself. No, no, no. You can’t afford to be doing things that you could delegate to somebody else. You should be spending your time on those things that only you can do. Because what I tell people is your as a business owner, your time is one of your company’s most valuable resources.

 

Your team is depending on you to maximize your time. And they they’re depending on you to be strategic and do the things that that only you can do. So that’s a different lens that I believe these if you look at these entrepreneurs who grow large organizations and they scale, that’s the way they think about

 

Growing their team. And that’s the way they think about their time. It’s how can I delegate as much as possible? How can I grow my people? How can I grow this team to be able to support more customers and to be able to s to even support more employees and give them a good place to work? okay. So here’s the question. Why do, why do

 

Justin (13:38.232)

Yes.

 

Justin (13:53.39)

Precisely.

 

Todd Dawalt (14:01.772)

Mo why do too many construction business owners treat hiring like an emergency? What what’s what’s behind this? What do you think?

 

Justin (14:09.912)

I mean, I think I think if it came down to the psychological concept of kind of like a scarcity or an abundance mindset, I think there’s some role to play that there’s a kind of a scarcity mindset. Todd, I think you spoke a lot to that. Hey, I’m gonna carry it and shoulder it myself, and I’m gonna be Atlas and I’ll carry the world. I think a lot of that exists in the industry. And if we’re honest, I mean there’s a lot of strong, hard working, badass guys in the construction industry who are prideful and don’t wanna say no.

 

So a lot of those are reason a lot of those are reasons that I see with the clients that I interface with. But the biggest and most heavy one is I don’t want to let them down. I don’t want to let my friends down. I don’t wanna let my family down. I don’t wanna let the guys down, I don’t wanna let the team down. So the owner takes on more and more and more. And when I go into my initial visit call with an initial client,

 

And ask them, can you share with me the list of all the things that you’re doing? Several times I’m sitting with an owner that has three positions, two positions. And I’m thinking, how do you have time to do any of the things that you started to do? You started in this industry because it was joyful for you. We get to do things you and I, Todd, that were joyful about every single day. And that’s a gift. It’s a gift from God. So I think what that’s one of the things I’m the most proud of about working in the construction industry.

 

Is seeing people who chose positions, chose the life they chose, because it does come from their heart. And then for some reason or another along the way, some story was populated of why that’s no longer true. And the work that we’ve done over the last seven, eight years working together to repair that story, to create the systems, and then empower the people.

 

That’s what I see as kind of the first thing is this abundance and scarcity mindset and overcoming it. The second part of it is a definitely more of a fiduciary mindset. That’s not profitable to hire people. People cost me money. The more people I have, the more expensive it’s going to be. I’m sure you and I have found, I can speak for myself, I have found quite the inverse. As my team has grown, I think I have more profit. As I as my team has grown, I have more time for myself.

 

Justin (16:24.108)

I c I it’s exciting to have an eight-hour day again. my gosh, to have an eight-hour work day again, guys. What what could that feel like? To have a team member that says thank you so much. Like these are abundant beliefs that don’t really exist. So I understand that I’m compassionate to owners that are working 14 hours and have this scarcity mindset, but Todd, that really is it. It’s this psychological concept.

 

Todd Dawalt (16:46.828)

Yeah. Speaking of scarcity, here it is. If you’re thinking if you’re listening, thinking scarcity, that’s I think maybe I have scarcity brain, you need to read this book, Scarcity Brain by Michael Easter. It’s it’s one of the books that I read and I remember looking up thinking, This is what’s wrong with my brain. This is what’s wrong with me.

 

It’s scarcity brains. And the tricky thing about scarcity brain and the things that keep people stuck is is they sound so logical and they sound like they are prudent, responsible things to do, like you can’t afford to hire someone.

 

What if another one is what if I hire this person and it doesn’t work out? I’m gonna be letting my team down. What if I hire this person and then I run out of work and they come to work for me with their young family and then I have to lay them off? All these what ifs. And it it seems responsible to just do nothing, but that’s what keeps people stuck. So so many people, I I’ve done at live events, we’ve talked about

 

What’s the problem with finding skilled people? And before long, we came up with an entire list of of fears. It has nothing to do with people. It’s it’s all of these fears. That’s the real problem. So if you’re thinking the problem’s out there, you think you might have scarcity brain, go read this book. It’s a fascinating book, very enlightening. All right. So we could

 

We could spend an entire episode talking about that mental malware, the scripts that run. But that’s I have an episode called mental malware. You may wanna if you guys are listening, you may wanna go check that one out. So let’s let’s get practical and let’s talk about you talked about the higher right framework, and you’ve got a a step by step process that people can follow. Walk us through your higher right framework.

 

Justin (18:28.676)

Mm-hmm.

 

Justin (18:54.208)

Absolutely. So after meeting with a client, you know, they’ve got a need, the first thing I’m gonna do is step one in the higher right framework is the magnet. We need to get applicants into our pipeline. The magnet means we’re gonna make sure that an open seat never starts from zero. We’re gonna have a warm pipeline of candidates coming in. There’s more than one way to attract candidates out there right now. There’s organic traffic.

 

And there’s active traffic. Organic traffic is when I post a job ad and people come in. Active traffic is when I sponsor or pay for a job ad. So there’s more than one way to post and get traffic in. In addition to that, we do things like referrals. The goal is to make sure that we have a strong magnet out there saying, hey, this is who I am and this is what I do before I need the talent. There’s a marketing concept being top of mind.

 

How do we make sure we’re top of mind in our market and make sure that that magnet is attracting the top talent in our market?

 

When I’m working with clients, I have a few tools on the back end. I use a little bit of AI, and I’m very heavy on Indeed, ZipRecruiter, and LinkedIn to make sure that our magnets on those portals are strong. We would strongly encourage looking at NAHB and NARI portals as well and feeding them into your HR ecology. Having this magnet constantly feeding you good candidates creates you as a a position of renown and as an employer, a top 10 top of mind employer.

 

Those places give you an abundance to think from and go, wow, I’ve got a lot of candidates. This gives me a really ability to think about what’s next. Once we have a magnet, we can really start to, you know, be a little bit more, you know, abundant, if you will.

 

Todd Dawalt (20:46.67)

Okay. When you say a magnet, what is that? Is this a job posting or is it something else?

 

Justin (20:54.104)

I’m glad that you asked, Todd. The reason that we use the term magnet is yes, while we do job postings, in this market, as I’m sure many listeners are finding, it’s hard to find great people out there. So not just an job listing, but posts on social media. Putting things onto your web page, linking to a c your career page, linking to other portals on the internet.

 

All of those things are tools that we would do in our magnet stage. And what I’ve found is in the last ten years, where ten years ago I could throw an ad onto Indeed and people would show up. Now that’s not such the case, particularly not in our industry. The magnet requires a a multi-timbral approach. So yes, there are job ads involved, and yes, there is some marketing on I would say if you’re gonna spend one marketing source anywhere, I’d I’d spend it on LinkedIn.

 

It is definitely the best single source for attraction.

 

Todd Dawalt (21:50.189)

Okay. So the goal is to be top of mind maybe for people who aren’t even looking for a job because most of your best candidates are currently employed. So if you put a job posting out, your best candidates maybe not won’t even see it because they’re not looking for a job. So yeah, makes completely sense. Okay. So step one is the magnet. What is what’s the next step?

 

Justin (22:14.276)

Step two would be the filter. The filter is a screening system. So in my team, what we use is we use a psychometric assessment from a company called Preview. Preview measures your IQ, your EQ, and your AQ. IQ is your intelligence, EQ is your emotional intelligence, and AQ is what motivates you, or action quotient. Once we have that assessment data,

 

a team member from my team will reach out to an applicant and we’ll ask them, hey, why are you looking for a new job? Why are you leaving your old job? What are you looking for for money? What are your biggest strengths and weaknesses? And making sure that we can sort out those key qualifiers that an individual might or might not have would be the second stage in any recruitment process. Particularly if the magnet is working well, we are going to expect a large volume of applicants.

 

And in a fairly efficient sort of way, we need to identify right fit, wrong fit. So the filter is designed to both on an IQ and EQ perspective and on a do you have the right job fit and attitudinal perspective, filter out those individuals. And I have a guide for applicants and for clients that are working through our system, a guide that they would check off to complete.

 

Todd Dawalt (23:37.251)

Yeah, we’ll share that. actually I’ll just go ahead and share the link. You’re gonna provide a a scorecard and a checklist. and if if you’re interested in that and you’re like I need to get this going right now, there’s a link in the show notes where you can go get your your hands on that. Interesting. Okay, so you’ve got the magnet, the filter. What’s next?

 

Justin (24:00.974)

Third part now we get into the blueprint. The blueprint is where we’re gonna use the assessment data. We’re gonna maybe even ask them to come in and do a deeper, more visceral interview. This is where we’re gonna sit down and have them go through Colby. And we’re not gonna just look at them. We’re gonna actually ask for some sort of practicum. If they’re a lead carpenter or a project manager, I might ask them out to a job site and say, Hey, can we talk about kind of what what can you do on a job site?

 

I’ve done with several project managers where I leave them with a set of blueprints and say, hey, look at this for half an hour. And when we come back, we’d like to talk about what a two-week look ahead might be. So in the blueprint perspective, we’re now taking the assessment data that we’ve collated and looking at all of the data on this individual and saying, hey, is this linear and does this fit? Do we have a good fit here or not? Do they fit the blueprint of the position or not?

 

So we call it the blueprint because we’re using assessment data and practical data to line down and say, does this person really, really fit?

 

Todd Dawalt (25:05.208)

You mentioned the Colby, which is K-O-L-B-E. For those who aren’t familiar with that, can you give a a brief overview of what what the Colby is? I think there are maybe even a couple of flavors of that, but can you talk about that a little bit?

 

Justin (25:18.136)

Thank you, Todd. Yes. For anybody that is familiar with Geno Wickman’s Entrepreneurial Operating System or EOS, Colby, K-O-L-B-E, is the partnered assessment to EOS. Kathy Colby and Geno Wickman were long fast friends. And as a Colby trained consultant man, did we get some fun stories? Call me anytime if you want to hear the Kathy Colby stories. The Colby is a system based out of Arizona State University brain science data.

 

That talks about not how one thinks nor how one feels, but what one does. It’s a motivational assessment that breaks things down into four quadrants how you gather facts, how you deal with change, how you deal with organization, and are you more tangible or concrete in the way you think about things?

 

So I found it extremely powerful in having the concept of are you in the right seat or wrong seat on the bus? When we’re talking about individuals growing into other spaces in the organization, I find Colby to be of paramount efficacy.

 

Todd Dawalt (26:25.076)

Is one of the categories on Colby quick start? Is there a so for example if you’re wondering how in the world would I use this? I I I’ve gone through the Colby and I have my results here somewhere, but it’s really interesting to look at

 

Justin (26:30.03)

Yeah.

 

Todd Dawalt (26:44.084)

one of the one of the the categories is quick start are you a high on quick start or are you low on quick start and someone who’s high on quick start they’re like ready fire aim let’s go lots of big ideas but not so great on follow-up somebody who’s low on quick start like myself pretty methodical they do the research

 

Before they jump into anything. And it’s really important that you match the role with those results. So if you want somebody, you probably don’t want, let’s say, an estimator who’s super high on quick starts and low on the details. Maybe.

 

Justin (27:29.356)

I I strongly agree with that, Tuck.

 

Todd Dawalt (27:31.959)

Yeah, so this is the importance of doing these assessments. And and I also I want to talk about what you said about the practicum. I call this the the Missouri principle. Missouri is the show me state. So it’s one thing to say, you get like to use the example you said, you’re interviewing for a project manager role. Justin, can you prepare a are you familiar with putting together a two-week look-ahead schedule? And you would say, of course.

 

Now what does that mean? Are you familiar with it? You that could mean I’ve prepared a two week look ahead every day for the last twelve years on five projects at a time. Or you it could mean, yeah, I think I saw one once that a superintendent prepared. So you can

 

Go with the tell me, or you can go with the show me. And I really like the show me. It’s like, yeah, I I love your idea. I’ve shared the same concept with other clients. Give them a set of plans and have them come up with a material list, a two-week look-ahead schedule, find the discrepancies, show me that you know how to read blueprints, show me that you know how to schedule, show me that you understand job tread. So I think that’s

 

Fantastic. It’s one thing, it’s risky to ask somebody, can you do this? It’s much it reduces that risk to to say, show me that you can do that. So I love that. What’s what’s next?

 

Justin (29:01.826)

The next step in the process is the walkthrough where we go in with our team and I do recommend that we have a team involved and we do a structured scorecard based interview.

 

One of the handouts that we’re offering today is a scorecard to help with those interviews. And any listeners who’d like to bring more structure to their interviews, this structured interview is designed to do that. this is qualitative methodology. I’m sure one of my professors back at university is crying that I even remember these concepts. but this is this is really the core. When I learned from the powerhouses in HR, what they said to me is just in a structured interview with the same questions that gives a clear signal.

 

And then a scorecard that reduces bias, this is best practice. So our four our stage four, the walkthrough, culminates all of the information that we’ve gathered from our magnets and filters, from the blueprints, and puts it together into a really structured interview, a systematic interview, if you will. And I use a thing called the five pillars. The five pillars that I recommend are: do they have the right job skills? Do they have the right computer skills?

 

Do they have the right communication skills? Do they have the right personality? And do they have the right presentation? And then measuring those things in my mind in a scorecard, and then saying to my team, hey team, what were your scores? And now we can have a very substantive conversation about: there’s a four here and a five here, or a three here, and a two here.

 

much more powerful conversation than I liked them. I didn’t like them. I thought they were a good fit. I didn’t think they were a good fit. So that’s where stage four takes all of the data that we’ve collected up until now and the rubber truly meets the road.

 

Todd Dawalt (30:53.474)

This seems while very systematic, some people may be thinking, how d you know, culture fit is such a this seems like it’s difficult to measure culture fit. It’s all, you know, we’re talking about presentation and communication and computer skills. Is this like

 

squeezing out the human component? Is it squeezing out the culture fit? How I guess a better question is how is this helping to identify the best culture fits?

 

Justin (31:32.665)

Great question. We come we’ve come to find that, you know, with DISC, Myers, Brig, and the personality assessments out there, there’s a generally set sixteen cells of personality data. And data scientists, industrial psychologists, some of my favorite people on earth, have really looked into this and identified what satisfies and motivates people.

 

And that’s where the assessments that I’ve chosen, where Preview and Colby really dive in. And that’s where my work I’m the most passionate about is really about what motivates people. So I think that that to me is the is the heartbeat of all of this, is about finding within an assessment or within a tool, how do we motivate people and get into that motivational element. People don’t just show up to work to earn money.

 

People show up to work because there’s a deeper mission. And when we can harness those two things, money and mission, that’s when we’re really talking about what what work is about. I think that’s the missing story that’s going on in the world right now. so we if we can harness that in our process, I think we’re gonna have a much more solid team and a much more solid workflow.

 

Todd Dawalt (32:47.468)

Yeah. twenty years ago I remember going through a disc assessment with a team that was working at a large large company and we went through the disc assessment and there was one thing that stood out to me, which was one of the things was if you’re this whatever, it I don’t remember what it was, but it if you do the if you’re one of these people, if your categories is this, you probably

 

Before you forward an email, you go through and you you fix the grammatical errors and you fix all the typos and you make sure it’s good before you forward someone else’s email on to somebody else. And I remember thinking, that’s insane. Why would anybody else do that? And there was a guy named Jay on the team who was like, You mean nobody else does this? I thought everybody cleaned up other people’s grammar on every email before they forwarded it. And I remember thinking,

 

That’s crazy. But we’re so different. So when you talk about motivation, I think most people would say most unfortunately most people project their motivation onto everybody else. And they they’re like, You just said something of like, what do you mean? People are listening like this Justin guy said, Not everybody’s motivated by money. I’m motivated by money. What else could somebody be motivated by? So what are some of those other things that motivate people?

 

Justin (34:14.894)

When we talk about it from a psychological perspective, we’re talking about intrinsic and extrinsic motivational factors. The the extrinsic motivational factors are the money ones. The other term we use is mission. So I really believe in what this company is doing. We serve a community that I’m really passionate about. This is a thing my father and my grandfather have done, and I’m carrying a legacy forward that will endure.

 

These are all things that are intrinsic. Todd, what you do is inspirational. I need to be a part of that. That’s an intrinsic motivational factor. And when we look at human resources, all the way from the Fortune 500 down to the mom and pop, this is the real role of human resources, is the conversion of people from extrinsic to intrinsic motivational factors to get our team focused on our mission so we can offer one and one for all.

 

And those teams that are the most duplicitous and the least successful are team members where everyone is singularly money focused. So HR has always been focused, all the way from the Fortune 500 down, on this conversion from intrinsic to extrinsic. And deeper than that, I would say culture is also about efficiency. People want to show up to work, they want to high-five each other, they want to be proud of the work they do, they want to get fair money, and they want to go home. There’s only a small segment of us called entrepreneurs.

 

Who enjoy working ridiculous hours for ridiculous rewards. Much of the population has not chosen this. And for us entrepreneurs, it’s important to remember that. Ecology is Greek. And the Greek is echo and logia, way of living. We have different ways of living, and human resources helps us elucidate individuals’ ways of living. And I use assessments and these tools and my gushy nature.

 

to elucidate that from individuals and then empower business owners so they understand the head and the heartbeat of team members lest they digress.

 

Todd Dawalt (36:22.338)

Yeah, that’s that’s really good. I think one of the big takeaways here for those of you listening is not everybody thinks like you do. If you’re a business owner, they’re not wired like you are. They’re not motivated by the same things you are, the people on your team.

 

Are not all motivated by the same thing. They don’t all think the same. And maybe one of the worst things you could do is to have a team of people who are motivated just like you are and think like you are. That would probably be a disaster if you had a bunch of entrepreneurs. What you’ve done is just created a a nest of of chaos for the most part. really good. Thank you for for explaining that that motivation piece. So we’ve got step one is the magnets.

 

Justin (36:56.932)

Ha ha.

 

Todd Dawalt (37:10.936)

Step two is the filter, step three is the blueprint, step four is the walkthrough. What’s next?

 

Justin (37:17.7)

Step five, final step is the close. Making sure that we have the right clear communication. Something like, hey applicant, I really appreciated all the time and dedication you’ve put into this so far. I see a vision for you in the project manager position, and we’re really excited to offer you this offer moving forward. Please review your emails and check out your offer. In the offer would be smart. When I say a smart offer,

 

I say precisely that about their personal needs. What do they need economically? What do they need in their family life? What do they need to grow themselves as a professional? So holistically, what does that offer provide? Many times I’ve gone to an applicant and said, hey applicant, I don’t think numerically we can line up on day one, but if you’re willing to work hard, I’m willing to give you more than your original salary expectation.

 

Based on the fact on this training component or this OSHA certification or this builder trend cert that you need to get. And Todd, what I’ve heard resoundingly throughout the market is: I’m glad to put in what I need to put in to earn my space. I’m glad to do what I need to do. So I don’t think there’s an entitlement space there. And our offers are designed to open that up and create the challenge for new hires.

 

So in the offer, we’re trying to create a space, a breadcrumb trail, if you will, and saying, hey, here’s some low-hanging fruit where you’ll be able to succeed. And then here’s some big challenges. And here’s where business owners can create a powerful offer that doesn’t need to be top dollar. I think a lot of people in the market right now think if I don’t give someone $100,000 plus, if I don’t go top of market, I can’t hire top talent. And Todd, people right now they want hope.

 

With the market the way it is, with geopolitics the way they are, what I’m hearing resoundingly from applicants is I want hope. If you can offer me a job where I’m gonna be here a year later, you’re gonna invest in me, I’m gonna invest in you, I’m willing to invest in that. So in our last step, the close, it’s not just a formal CHRO certified human resources officer letter. There’s some narrative to it. Hi, thank you for the time. We really care about who you are.

 

Justin (39:37.625)

Here’s the vision that I see, and how you’ll be able to grow in the organization and what the organization can offer you. That hope. Based on that, now we place the close and the offer. And with that, we’ve been very successful in 2026 in bringing in people under market salary, using KPIs and performance metrics to grow those team members. So, yes, our final step is the close, and I think it really brings it all together in our holistic five-step process.

 

Todd Dawalt (40:05.72)

Good stuff. You mentioned something I want to touch on. There’s another misconception, especially among smaller businesses. And when I say smaller businesses, this would be businesses doing under $10 million a year in revenue. There’s this concept misconception that there’s no way I can ever attract a good fill-in-the-blank. All of the good ones are already taken. They’re working for the big companies.

 

Why would they ever well they don’t even ask that? They just assume people working at these big companies would never want to come work for this little company. So they don’t even try. And I’ve seen it some maybe even with some of our mutual clients, when they’ve gone through this process and created

 

A a compelling offer and they’ve gotten over their mental malware, they’ve been able to attract some great people who have left much larger companies. And those larger companies, they don’t offer the mission. They don’t offer

 

They they take away from their family. They’re there. So many times I’ve heard superintendents saying, I’m tired of traveling, I’m tired of just being a number on a spreadsheet, and I want to work in my hometown and I want to be part of the community. So what you’re offering as a small business is actually very compelling, even in many cases, more compelling than what a big company offers. So if you’re dealing with that mental malware, let me just put that to rest.

 

Justin (41:35.14)

Thank you.

 

Todd Dawalt (41:35.927)

your your offer is much more very much could be much more compelling than you think it is. And the and that’s keeping you from even trying. So you don’t really know until you put it out there. So let’s talk about what does this look like? You’ve been working with a lot of construction business owners, many of whom are mutual clients. Can you you tell us about some of the results that clients have seen working with you and going through this process?

 

Justin (42:05.29)

Absolutely. I’d be honored. one of our mutual clients who was glad to share, Andrew over at GDG Custom Home, thank you, Andrew, for letting me share, reached out and said, We need a construction manager and we need somebody quick. I could hear that Andrew, after completing the SYCB process, wanted someone and wanted a data-driven system.

 

We were able, using our assessment tools and an existing network of candidates that I had in the market to make a place for a space for him very quickly. And their new hire, Chrissy, in Andrew’s words, is a unicorn. Why that was able to happen, praise to G2G, was they were able to move quickly through the five-step process. They gathered the on the on the col collect side of things, we gathered everything we needed to do. The magnet worked perfectly.

 

And the blueprint assessments were sent out, and Andrew followed up right away and said, Hey, applicants, I need you to do this thing for me. If you get this done for me, I’d like to take you out for coffee. That warm, kind of friendly environment where he’s Hey, can you take this assessment for me? When I talked to the new hire, they said to me, When Andrew called me on the phone and said, Take the assessment, I was excited right away. So it just feels so good to know that after Andrew saw the value in the assessment.

 

He was able to then have a powerful interview with this individual. And now this person is literally taking weight off of Andrew’s plate, is in the construction management software as of today. My admin team is in there making sure the KPIs are going, Todd, and we’re seeing boxes check off, which makes me giddy in a weird kind of way. So very excited that Andrew has been able to do that. But I think one of the other things that we did there is we assessed internally. So we knew what already existed within the G2G ecology.

 

And brought in another team member that had similar personality, had similar intellect, but different motivations. So that this team member wouldn’t be waltzing on toes with the other team members, would be motivated to do the different things, particularly the data stuff nobody loves to do. So this is a way that we can bring additive skills that are also gonna be, you know, beneficial for everybody.

 

Justin (44:24.428)

So Andrew and G D G, praise to them, really pleased they were able to find their construction manager and were are are able to move forward as fluidly as they are.

 

Todd Dawalt (44:35.98)

They’re a great team. I like Andrew. He went through our S W S Y C B program and is now in our CEO Alliance. And they are great implementers. They they just get stuff done. there’s an old saying in sales, time kills deals. Does that also apply in recruiting?

 

Justin (44:56.204)

It really does. particularly with applicants in the market as we see them right now. the market, particularly summer market twenty-six, is a very duplicitous market. It’s not that there aren’t great applicants out there, but they’re moving very quickly. I had a v situation at the beginning of the year where I had an owner named Jeremy, and Jeremy had become the bottleneck in his own company. He was doing all the things. He was estimating

 

He was doing sales. I mean, there were places where he was literally working and living from the office. Like we’ve all been there, but like it was like, I was almost gonna make a one bedroom in the back of the office. And we were able to find him a new estimator, and that estimator has now given him the ability to now go back home. What stood out to me on this hire was that his wife reached out.

 

And was like, I get to see my husband again. Thank you. His office manager, who’s his sister-in-law, was like, Thank you. We get we we get him back. We get Jeremy back. So for all of you guys out there who are working the 70 hours a week, know there’s hope. Know there’s people out there that want to do the things that you don’t like to do and get meaningful amount of joy out of it. And that for less dollars per hour than you’d imagine, happiness could be yours.

 

That was Jeremy’s experience. And one of the things this year, Todd, I’m the most proud of, and getting to know about Jeremy, seeing how bogged down he was, watching him get rid of this head trash, and now seeing him live the life he’s wanted to live for 10 years. I mean, it gives me all the reasons of why I do what I do. So yeah, big successes with Andrew and with Jeremy.

 

Todd Dawalt (46:42.754)

Yeah. And while I’m sure I I I don’t know Jeremy, but I I can attest that Andrew is incredibly intelligent. I would if he were listening to this, I would say he’s incredibly attractive, resourceful, inspirational, just a fantastic guy. While that’s true, those qualities are not what made him successful, right? The what they did was they took the first step.

 

and if we wanted to summarize well my notes here, step one, recognize your head trash that’s holding you back. Is it true? Is it speculation? Is it mental malware? You gotta recognize that stuff. You can’t defeat what you don’t define.

 

So if your biggest enemy is truly the head trash and the mental malware, you need to define that. Take a good hard look in the mirror. And then follow a process. And what what I found is you have you have two options for this. Actually, you have three options. Option one is do nothing. Just keep struggling through it, work harder, work more hours, take pictures of your kids to give to your wife so they can.

 

Remember what you look like while you just work more hours and you know, they’re probably get hair plugs because you’re losing your hair just buy bigger pants because the stress and the cortisol makes you fat. That’s option one and just work hard or do nothing. Option two is you could DIY this stuff. And you can be like, Well, I’m gonna come up with a magnet, I could piece together this kind of system that Justin’s been talking about and

 

You know, try to DIY it, which is what a lot of contractors do. Or option three is you just find a proven system that gets you the results you want, and you go do what you’re good at and what makes you money. So those are really those are the options you have. If you’re stressed and strained and you know you need to do you need to hire somebody or feel like you do, those are your three options. It’s that simple. Or option four, maybe your best option is just to shut the whole thing down and go to work for somebody else. And that’s

 

Todd Dawalt (48:51.842)

That’s true for some people. That that is the best scenario for some people. so it’s really that simple. Do something. Take some action, do something different because continuing to do the same thing and expecting results is it’s the definition of insanity. all right. So you’ve got some resources to share with our audience. what you got, Justin? Talk talk to us about that.

 

Justin (48:52.505)

Yeah.

 

Justin (49:16.93)

So the write hirings, the hire right system scorecard is a gift for everyone listening today. Bring some systematic methodology into a hiring process. Anybody that’s going through a hire right now and what wants a systematic way to kind of see where we stand. This is a great place to kind of look at your system, see what’s working, see what’s not working. We’ve given kind of a roadmap on kind of how we built the early stages of what we’ve built in our own system.

 

So for anyone who’s looking to DIY it, this is a great place to start and look at how you could DIY it. If one was to identify, hey, I’ve tried to DIY this and it isn’t working, gives you kind of the structural methodology to work with a firm and what working with a firm might look like. so the idea here is to kind of be a groundwork and a safe place for construction leading edge podcast listeners to have step one in systematizing their recruitment process.

 

The same way that we can systematize our construction business, I think it’s important that we systematize our recruitment process. So as a gift to all the listeners today, I wanted to provide that first effort to systematize your business.

 

Todd Dawalt (50:27.842)

Good stuff. So

 

Go to the show notes, you’ll find a link to the hire right hiring system scorecard and checklist. Or you can just go to constructionleadingedge.com forward slash hiring. That will take you right to that resource. Download the resource, take some action, go through it. Justin, for people who are like, you know what, I just I just need to hire Justin. I don’t need a scorecard. I just I need to

 

I need the the gold pass, go straight to the front of the line. I need some help. I need the proven system. What’s the next step if people want to contact you?

 

Justin (51:08.59)

Please reach out to me at my webpage, www.jltalent solutions.com or my email address. Well, I’ll make sure my email address is fully available to everybody, Justin at JLtalentsolutions.com. I’d be honored to help you first do an initial investigation on your profile and on your team. Identify a free job profile for your job description and go from there.

 

Todd Dawalt (51:36.706)

So if you are thinking about hiring someone, well probably a better statement would be if you’re thinking about growing your business, this is one of the first moves that you need to make.

 

There’s no downside. It it’s only it’s only going to help you. So highly encourage you to get in touch with Justin. Either get your grubby little hands on the hiring system scorecard by clicking the link in the show notes or just contact Justin directly. Make sure you tell him that you heard it heard his interview on this podcast. And I can vouch for Justin. We’ve had mutual clients who’ve been working with Justin for years now, and Justin knows his stuff. He’s

 

Justin, you’re a bit of a mad scientist when it comes to your systems. And I like it. I like it. It’s an incredible amount of data that and good good insights that you produce. So thank you for the work you’re doing. Thanks for being here on the podcast, and yeah, keep up the great work.

 

Justin (52:30.958)

Thank you, Todd.

 

Justin (52:37.614)

Todd, thank you very much. It’s an absolute pleasure and honor to share something that we’re so passionate about in a mutual space where we can help our audience grow significantly. Thank you so much for having me.

 

Todd Dawalt (52:49.141)

Absolutely.