Episode 450: AI Is Lying, Customers Aren’t: Radical Transparency and Culture-Building with Eric Fortenberry

Todd Dawalt (00:12.835)

Our guest today is Eric Fortenberry, founder and CEO of JobTread, which has quickly become the top-rated project management software for thousands of builders and contractors, over 12,000 to be exact, and quite a few of our clients and audience members are users of JobTread. And Eric was also just recently named the EY Entrepreneur of the Year 2026 Southwest winner. Eric.

 

Congratulations and thanks for being on here, man. How’s it going?

 

Eric Fortenberry (00:51.566)

Appreciate it. It’s going great.

 

Todd Dawalt (00:53.355)

It’s it’s been a busy, busy year, 2026. I I admire your you’re everywhere, man. You’re you’re omnipresent. I don’t know how you do it, but you guys are doing some incredible work over there at Jobtred. And yeah, we’ll talk about company culture. I want to get inside some of how you guys think about instilling company culture. We’ll talk about AI, which is a hot topic, and then a few other things.

 

Maybe talk about what’s coming next for the construction industry. But let’s jump into this. Right now, a lot of the people I talk to, a lot of the construction business owners I talk to, are busier than ever, working more hours than ever, but they’re not happy with the profitability or they’re not happy with the amount of time that they’re working, the the lack of freedom. And they

 

Many of them tell me they just feel like they’re running on a hamster wheel, running faster and faster, not getting anywhere off. So to kick things off, I’d like to start with this. You have the unique vantage point of having worked with literally tens of thousands of construction business owners. They’re using your platform. You’ve talked to lots of them in the Facebook group where you’re very active. Job Tread Connects, which are incredible, by the way.

 

So here’s my question. What is the single biggest operational lie that contractors are being told today that’s secretly keeping them stuck? In other words, what’s a big mistake, one big mistake that you see builders and contractors making that is keeping them stuck on that hamster?

 

Eric Fortenberry (02:37.494)

That’s great great question. And you know, I unfortunately do do see that more often than I would like. you know, if if I had to boil it down to one thing, you know, I I I I would probably say that it they’re just not charging enough. They they don’t know their numbers, they don’t truly understand, you know, that their their financials, right? There’s there’s a difference between their gross profit and and their net profit. And you know, often I I I see that people just don’t really understand

 

you know, what it takes to deliver, you know, the the the job that they’re selling and and and often that will lead them to, you know, just inaccurately price it and and and often on the on the lower side where where they should be charging more. And I I think I think the root of this issue is that, you know, again, that they don’t take the time to just really understand their numbers and and and doing the job costing. You know, it’s it’s it’s often a a something that people say that, you know, I

 

I don’t have the time for it or you know, I don’t have the tools for it, or you know, I I I know what my numbers are, I know how much I need to make, you know, like they they they just have this kind of this this this this mindset that that they don’t need to be taking the time to do the job costing and and I would argue that that they actually do and they they need to be doing that more than just about anything else because you know so often people continue to do the same things over and over.

 

And and we’re we’re creatures of habit, right? And so like they may not even realize that they’re underestimating, you know, how long it takes to to to do you know a particular trade or or or labor, or maybe they’ve got, you know, outdated material pricing and like you know, the the notion of when you do your job costing, when you record all of your expenses to each of your jobs and and and say, Hey, is that what we expected to pay? Is that what we had budgeted for? And if so, great, awesome, everything’s good to go. But

 

you know, it’s it’s about catching those times where you didn’t budget for it correctly and and maybe maybe your production rate was off. Maybe you’ve got a different crew and it’s they’re they’re no longer able to do something as fast as the other crew. May maybe again you’re you’re using outdated, you know, pricing. I mean some some prices are all over the map, you know, these days and and really since since COVID. And so like I think that the notion of like, you know, taking the time and really using the tools

 

Eric Fortenberry (04:59.736)

that they have. I mean, j job tread is specifically, you know, designed to help them manage their their jobs. And and and that includes that job costing in real time so that they can course correct. You know, so many times though contractors they they just kind of, you know, d don’t don’t don’t don’t do the the the the the job costing. They just sort of assume it’ll all shake out in the wash. You know, they assume their bookkeeper will take care of it all. And like, you know, I think that’s where these these disconnects happen. And when people continue to do the same thing over and over and they just don’t see

 

that they’re not making the money that they should and that they’re not covering their overhead. Like that’s what leads them to to to continue, you know, making the same mistakes and they they they just they struggle to grow their business and they don’t understand the why. So I I I would I I would chalk it up to to not knowing your numbers and not doing your job costing would would probably be the the biggest challenge that that I see contractors making.

 

Todd Dawalt (05:50.509)

Yeah. Yeah, I I I would agree there’s you you mentioned a few things. number one, not understanding your overhead. And if you like many builders started off as a one man or one woman show and their overhead cost was just them. They didn’t have an office, they didn’t have a team. And then as you grow, you take on more overhead. And if you don’t understand what your overhead costs are, then you’re you’re starting

 

off on the wrong foot. you’re you’re pricing your work to not be profitable. And then you mentioned

 

Eric Fortenberry (06:25.102)

You know, ta Todd, if if if I could add a a a a short number two right after, you know, I I think just again, I’ve I’ve been thinking a lot about entrepreneurship lately. And you know, I I I do I I often see, you know, these these these business owners who again, they it it they’re used to doing everything. You know, as entrepreneurs, we naturally just keep putting on all the hats. I see a lot of people though that struggle to to to delegate and to build out a team that can take

 

Todd Dawalt (06:29.73)

Mm.

 

Eric Fortenberry (06:52.546)

that burden off of you. Like, you know, when when when you know at the end of the day, like we’re we are only just one person, you know, and there’s only so much that one person can do. And so I, you know, I I I feel like I see a lot of of those kind of solo owner operators who who just they get to the point where they get overwhelmed and all they think to do is just work harder and and do more. And you know, again, I I I applaud that and I’m I’m I’m a big believer in hard work and you it’s it’s very important. But at the end of the day, like

 

If we want to scale our business, we have to also scale our team. And we have to learn, you know, to to delegate the the the responsibilities to those people that we have put in place. And I just I I think that’s also very, very important because like, you know, if you want to get off that hamster wheel and you want to do something different, then I would encourage you to to again understand your numbers, model out, you know, your your your growth and your finances, make sure that you hire.

 

at the right time when you can afford it. So you’re not putting yourself in a in a cash flow bind. But you do need to build out a team and you need to think about how can I put people who are better than me in each of the roles so that I can then be able to to take that step back and focus on the business instead of having to do every single thing every day.

 

Todd Dawalt (08:05.75)

Yeah, that’s really good advice. I I’m really glad you said that because a a few things that that I would add to that when it comes to the financials, most people in construction did not start a business to be a bookkeeper. However, I’ve worked with really large companies. back before I started my own business, I managed projects that were run by GCs doing hundreds of millions of dollars a year.

 

Eric Fortenberry (08:20.258)

Hmm. Yeah.

 

Todd Dawalt (08:35.648)

These were large national GCs that were managing 20, 30, 50 million dollar projects. And I got to see behind the screen, and there was an architect that I worked with who accused, in kind of a joking way, one of these GCs of being a an accounting firm masquerading as a contractor. And he was sort of taking a shot at them. But the truth is, the what I found is companies that construction companies that scale are actually really good at.

 

Other things than construction. They’re really good at accounting. And for custom builders and and GCs, I’ve in my experience, they’re really good at pre-construction. And you just can’t see those things. They’re not, they don’t talk about them on their website, but that’s what makes them really good. It’s not just what they’re doing out in the field. and here’s the good news: if you’re listening to this thinking, I we’re five minutes into this conversation and already already hate it because

 

Eric and Todd are telling me I’ve got to learn how to do bookkeeping. No. Don’t try to do something you hate and you suck at. Find the who. Find the right person. Design your business in a way that you can pay somebody else to do these things that you’re never going to be good at. Don’t try to focus on your strength or don’t try to focus on your weaknesses. Find a a who instead of figuring out how to get better at these things that you’re never going to be good at. So yeah, I I I’m glad you mentioned that.

 

The other thing I would say is for a lot of people that you talk to, it sounds like they want to scale their business. Same thing with the people that we talk to. And you have two options. If you’re not happy with the results that your business is giving you, you can either work harder, just use brute force, work more hours, learn how to do bookkeeping, just do it all yourself. Just the atlas with the weight of the world on your shoulders, just piling more and more on. Or

 

redesign your business in a way that distributes that load. You don’t have to do it all. If you look at other businesses that scale, the owner isn’t doing it all. That’s a big, big transition that that people need to make. You don’t have to DIY it. You don’t have to do it all yourself. There there’s help out there and it starts with having a a vision and a design for your business to to get there. So I hope

 

Eric Fortenberry (10:51.318)

Hundred percent.

 

Todd Dawalt (11:02.422)

That pulled some people out of the the pit of despair thinking they have to get good at bookkeeping. curious how you would answer this question. What is one undervalued skill that you would advise all construction business owners to develop so they could be successful?

 

Eric Fortenberry (11:20.742)

it’s a great question you know i i I think I would I think I would probably continue on with the the the thought process of you know delegation but you know I would I would take it a step further to you know learn to be really good at defining your processes and understanding how to you know look at a process and determine is that an efficient process is is that a good

 

use of that person’s time and are they able to effectively accomplish the task at hand? And I think when when you can get good at understanding your processes and really defining them, then I would say it’s important to be able to then create SOPs. So your your standard, you know, operating processes, your your you know, how how are you going to, you know, operate this business for every single role, you know, have those those defined and create

 

you know, your your your your training documentation, your onboarding documentation, like get good at, you know, defining what do you expect from your people and how should they be operating so that you can have a well-oiled machine and everybody knows what they need to do in every situation. And if they don’t, then they need to know how to go find that answer.

 

And when you as as a business owner who again, you you should understand all of the processes here and sho you should be providing, you know, that insight, then I find that that’s how you’re gonna help people get up to speed the quickest and then also be as efficient and effective as they can in their role because they know what the responsibilities are, what the expectations are, and how to do it.

 

Todd Dawalt (13:09.826)

I wanna dig into that a little bit. So you you said delegation’s important and in order to delegate you need to be able to clarify expectations and and what people should do.

 

How do you practically do that? Can you talk about maybe behind the scenes? How how do you practically teach delegation at Job Tread? And how do you delegate a not necessarily a recurring task, but maybe there’s a a new initiative? What can you talk us through a practically how how you do that?

 

Eric Fortenberry (13:45.049)

Well, I I would say, you know, first and foremost, but before, you know, you you you delegate, I mean like you you have to again define what is it that you want to be done and what is the expected outcome. You know, so so so when I first took over the construction business that that I that I ran in two thousand eighteen where I built out the first version of Job Tread, like, you know, the the first thing I did was I I I I went in and I met with each person on the team and and and I would basically spend either half or a whole day

 

Just shadowing them and understanding their processes, understanding how they operate, what tools do they have at their disposal, how are they, you know, going about their their day-to-day? You know, and then I think once you understand that, if if you want to introduce something new, then again, how does that fit into that current SOP or that, you know, kind of line of thinking and operating so that you can make sure that you’re giving them very clear instructions.

 

You know, I I think a lot of times though you you also you have to make sure that you have the right people and the right roles. And so it’s very important that you, you know, you you you understand is this a good task for the person that I’m assigning it to? You know, some people just are not gonna be the right person for every single task. And so like understanding your people and understanding their strengths, their weaknesses, you know, what what what they’re good at doing and what kind of

 

framework they’re operating with, like that’s when you can sort of figure out, well, who is the best person for me to delegate this task to? You know, I’m sure we’ll all say, well, I can do it best, you know, but at the end of the day, like you can’t. Like you you need to have the ability to delegate out the responsibilities to others. So I I would say it’s important that you understand your others and understand their strengths and weaknesses and and who has, you know, the capacity to take this on. Because again, like you can’t just pile everything on somebody else either.

 

where they’re gonna have that same problem that you had, feeling overwhelmed and bottlenecked and everything’s having to go through them. So it’s it’s really about understanding your team and each of the people on it, and then you can figure out how to effectively delegate and and and and give those very clear expectations and instructions.

 

Todd Dawalt (15:56.419)

Yeah, I think that that’s great advice. Understand your people. Get really clear on the expected outcome. This is really important. I believe a lot of people go straight to the task and they keep the well, maybe they don’t even know what the outcome is. This is a big delegation mistake. Is jumping straight to a task, not being clear on the desired outcome, not setting up parameters, guardrails, and then just

 

There’s there’s a lot of visionary types out there in the construction world who are just throwing tasks at their people and they’ve forgotten about things that they told them a week ago. And that that gets really confusing. one thing that that I’ve found that works really well for me is I found that if you want to delegate a task, a project, an initiative, you have to spend significantly more time delegating it than you would spend doing it yourself. And this is where I think a lot of people they just

 

Throw up their hands and say, well, it’s easier if I just do it myself. Well, yeah, one time. But if you’re gonna do this a hundred times a year. So what I found is completely agree with what you say. Start with what is the desired outcome? What is the desired end state? When this is done, we will have accomplished these things. And then I spend a lot of time, I use AI for this quite a bit, walking through this is everything that needs to be done. What are the questions?

 

This person will have what are the parameters, what are the guardrails, and create. I create a set of performance specifications for a project or an initiative and spend quite a bit of time and hand that off. And if you do a good job, I found you don’t get a lot of questions. If you don’t do a good job and you just throw tasks at people and you’re not clear on the desired outcome, then you just set yourself up for a lot of questions. And in that case, you might as well just do it yourself. So

 

Eric Fortenberry (17:38.606)

Mm-hmm.

 

Eric Fortenberry (17:52.387)

You know, I I I think there’s also, you know, there there there can also be another way to approach it. And and and I think for for larger, you know, tasks, like the the the the other way to approach it, instead of kind of coming in and saying, Hey, you know, here’s exact what I want, here are the exact instructions, because again, some people that that’s exactly what they want. Now there’s gonna be other people who, you know, if if they have that kind of bigger picture thinking, you know, they really like to to to to run with ideas, take ownership over them.

 

Todd Dawalt (17:52.426)

Eric Fortenberry (18:21.016)

You know, your your other approach could be to try to involve them, you know, as early as you can, where to some extent you can kind of you you may know where you want to go with this, but like if they can feel like it was their idea and they came up with the solution, you know, that process right there, that will help them to take ownership over it and and they’ve created their own buy-in and now they are invested in that idea because they feel like that was their idea. And so they’re gonna be even more excited and passionate.

 

about going and executing that. You know, so so I think to some extent, you know, it’s it’s again, it’s important to know your people and and and understand where can you sort of just maybe tee up the conversation and steer the group a little bit through the conversation, but allow, you know, that those people who you ultimately want to to do the work to to to take ownership over it, because that will make a big difference.

 

Todd Dawalt (19:11.552)

Yeah, one hundred percent. That this is a lesson I wish I had learned fifteen years earlier in my career because I was guilty of going into my office in the job trailer or wherever I was stuck at the time, hammering out a process, making the plan, and then going to the team and attempting to cram it down their throats and then being frustrated with why aren’t they this is a perfect plan. Why are these guys? It’s like they’re finding every reason it won’t work. And it’s because I was

 

Eric Fortenberry (19:32.846)

Mm-hmm.

 

Todd Dawalt (19:41.687)

Delegating at the wrong level. And what I’ve found is exactly what you’re saying. The half-baked plan that your team comes up with and that they will follow is better than the perfect plan that you can come up with, that they’ll find every reason it won’t work. So that that’s a leadership unlock right there. I’m really glad you you brought that up. Get the people involved, lead the conversation.

 

Help them figure out why they want to change, what they want to change, how they should do things. And I’ve I’ve done a lot of deep dives with teams on site, getting them to change their process. And that’s that’s the only way it works is helping the team figure out why they want to change. What should you do? And then facilitating that conversation. Yep, that’s good stuff there. All right. So there is a fantastic

 

Job Tred Facebook group. And I crowdsourced some questions. I went on there a few days ago and said, hey, if you could ask Eric Fortenberry one question, what would you ask him? And I’ve got a couple of those coming up here in just a minute. one of the hot topics is AI. Everybody’s every AI is everywhere. And AI clawed, claw automations, agents.

 

They’re they’re just dominating the conversation right now. But you’ve you’ve been you’ve talked about the the benefits of AI, but you’ve also talked about that there are some some real, maybe hidden risks under the surface of all of this AI hype. So I’m curious, what are some of the dangers of a construction business owner just blindly jumping in and using AI in their business?

 

Eric Fortenberry (21:37.551)

Sure, great, great question. And and and you’re right. I I absolutely I I see the pros and I and I see there there’s also some cons. you know, again, I’m I’m huge AI evangelist, big fan. I I think, you know, Claude’s Claude’s one of my best friends now. You know, it’s it’s very important that that we all leverage AI. Th there there’s no question about it.

 

You know, it it it has so many benefits to your business and and and the efficiencies that it can provide. Like the you know, just like I I mean, I I honest to God, I feel like it has made me a superhuman because of how quickly I can solve problems or come up with ideas or figure things out, like analyze massive data sets that like could have taken me, you know, days or weeks or who who knows how long, you know, to do. So so so I do think it is a huge advantage and a big tool that everybody needs to be leveraging.

 

You know, but I but I say all that with the caveat of that, you know, it is important that that we understand the risk as well. You know, I I I think that at the end of the day, you know, my my biggest concern this this whole time has been that I see the the the you know the the tendency to to just see AI as this like, you know, easy button. And and you can just go press that easy button and bam, you got some sort of, you know, whatever it may be that you asked it to do, you got something, you know, beautifully written or some great set of instructions or

 

you know, a fully analyzed set of plans or a budget built or schedule built. And and and again, like I think that’s great at how quickly it can generate, you know, and draft up this this this information for us. But I think it’s very important that you know we don’t forget that we are still the experts. You know, we are still in charge. The buck stops with us. And so you know my my biggest fear is as we continue to roll out AI features and and again I’m I’m seeing

 

You know, tons and tons of excitement and usage. I just want everyone to remember though, you know, at the end of the day, like you have to double check and triple check everything that AI puts out there. You know, I I would say, you know, back in the day it used to be, you know, trust and verify. I would say don’t trust and verify. You know, it’s it’s it’s gonna be that time and and and and again the challenge is like AI will will convince you without a shadow of a doubt that it is it is dead right.

 

Eric Fortenberry (23:52.215)

Hundred percent this is the answer. And you can be like, hey, actually two plus two does not equal five. And then it’s like, you’re right. It equals four. And it’s like, yeah, like how did you even miss that? You know, but like that there there is this notion and and and every IA actually tracks it. They have a hallucination rate. And so that there is this, you know, tendency for it to, you know, hallucinate and and it’s giving you what it thinks you want to hear and what you’re looking for. And if it doesn’t know the answer, it’s gonna

 

Do its best guest to just brute force, figure it out, and tell you that’s the right answer. And and that’s where I think contractors, you know, we we really have to make sure that we are double checking that because my my my my biggest concern and fear is that someone’s gonna go and and sell a fixed price project and and and and then you know they’re gonna get into it, push, come to shove, they’re gonna realize that, you know, the AI forgot something. And that something could have been something big.

 

And and again, at the end of the day, like you sold a fixed price contract. And and obviously you’ll you’ll you’ll go back and you’ll try to get a change order, you’ll try to explain the situation, but at the end of the day, like you know, you you have entered into a contractual, you know, agreement here. And and and if this were to go to court, like the judge is not gonna care who who who omitted this. It doesn’t matter, you know, you’re not gonna go after Claude. You know, you are the operator, you are the one responsible.

 

And so I just I I want people to to keep that in mind because like you know again like it can create a whole lot of content and a whole lot of solutions and answers very, very quickly. But like, you know, you are the expert. You are the one that has the real relationship with your clients. And i the AI is only gonna use what you give it. And so like I I think this this this tendency to just, you know, use AI to respond to everything, to draft up everything, to create all these answers, like that, that can

 

you know, get out of hand if if we don’t remember, you know, that that that this is just a tool to supplement and complement all of our efforts, but like we are still in charge. And and and and I really hope to see that people will will will remember that. You know, I I don’t see AI just like replacing contractors, at least not in the near future and hopefully not for a long time, you know, because like it it’s it’s it’s the people and it’s the relationships and that it’s it’s that knowledge that you have.

 

Eric Fortenberry (26:15.702)

working with that client. It’s being able to read their body language and understand what really matters to them, you know, that that the AI is not going to get and it’s not going to understand. And so hopefully we can remember to to continue building the relationships, continue answering the phone, continue working with our clients and don’t just take this AI for granted and think it’s that that easy button because I’m I’m I’m very worried that, you know, a lot of people are going to going to get themselves into hot water when they do that.

 

Todd Dawalt (26:46.208)

Yeah, it’s when I was in college studying structural engineering years ago, computer aided design was just coming out. And there was a risk that somebody could just put in a few parameters and it would spit out a structural design for a building and it would do it. And it it wouldn’t tell you if it was right or wrong. And it was crucial that engineers still understood the fundamentals and that they used the tool to design components and

 

check everything and not design the entire building. And I I agree with you. there’s a risk. I I’ve seen this, it’s like, guys, just because AI can do it efficiently, just because AI, you there’s a tool out there that you can upload PDFs of plans and it will kick out specifications, detailed estimate and a schedule. Just because it can doesn’t mean you should trust it. And that’s that’s

 

I I share your concern. I I think there will be people, there probably are people right now who are feeling the effects of, well, I just went all in on AI and I only found out the hard way.

 

Eric Fortenberry (27:59.171)

You know, I I I have seen a lot of people who have invested a lot of time because again, it’s it’s fun, it’s exciting, it’s something new, it it it it has this mind blowing, you know, experience that happens a l you know, rather often. You know, but like I’ve I’ve seen a lot of people who who who will also come back and tell you, man, like I went down this rabbit hole and I wasted an entire day doing something that like I I should have just kept doing it the old way because like it’s actually a lot faster.

 

You know, not everything is actually faster or more accurate when you’re using AI. And so like it is this fine balance of like, let’s make sure that we’re we’re we’re being productive, we’re being, you know, very focused on what we’re trying to do with it, and that we’re not taking our eye off the ball. You know, it again, it sometimes it feels like playing a video game or we like to feel like we can all be developers and like, you know, I I see a lot of things that you know getting created and it’s like, man, you spent a long time on that.

 

You know, and ultimately, unfortunately, I hate to tell you, you know, you just exposed a lot of information that you didn’t intend to do, or like, you know, there’s a lot of kind of security risk, you know, from a from a data privacy, data information standpoint that, you know, people just don’t often understand. And I don’t think that AI, you know, is is taking all of these factors into consideration. It wants to give you what you want as quickly as possible and it and it it cuts a lot of corners. And and again, I just I I think that there are gonna be a lot more, you know, kind of you know

 

unfortunate, you know, stories that will will continue to come up and and hopefully they’re the outliers, but you know, at the end of the day, it th it is a double edged sword here.

 

Todd Dawalt (29:35.649)

Yeah. I wonder with technology, there’s it’s like there’s a pendulum and it swings to a certain point and then it goes too far and it starts to swing back either because people get tired of it, the iPhone was too big and it starts to get really small again or whatever the case may be. I I’m do you do you feel like I’ve seen some people say the AI bubble is about to burst or the pendulum is about to swing the other way? What

 

What do you think? Are we are we close to that bubble popping or things swinging back the other way, or do we still have a ways to go?

 

Eric Fortenberry (30:13.826)

You know, I I I I we we’ve seen this happen before. There there is a lot of hype. There’s a lot of marketing, a lot of fluff out there, you know, and and it kinda reminds me, you know, back in like the the the when when when AWS and and Google Cloud and all these, you know, it was like the cloud, right? And it was like this like big hype and big all this everything needed to go to the cloud and like everyone was on the cloud and you know, like we’re we’re seeing a lot of that same kind of, you know, a lot of hype, a lot of excitement, you know, there’s a lot of FOMO.

 

But at the end of the day, you know, a lot of people, you know, really don’t understand what the AI is and how it works. You know, we we see all the time people will show up to to a job tread demo and they’re just like, all right, well, you I I’m really looking for for an AI solution. It’s like, all right, great. You know, what exactly are you hoping it’ll do? It’s like, well, I don’t know. I just I I just I just want AI. And it’s like, okay, like is is there something in particular you want? Well, no, I just I just know I want, and I and I hear everyone else is using it, so I want to use it. And it’s like,

 

Todd Dawalt (31:05.919)

Mm-hmm.

 

Eric Fortenberry (31:13.814)

Okay, you know, like we we we have to again know what are we trying to do, you know, because it it it’s it’s not gonna just come and solve every problem under the sun. And, you know, I I think a lot of people don’t realize, I mean, I we have already seen tons and tons of AI companies. They’ve already come and they’ve already gone. You know, our our we we actually on our floor here, we we had a an AI legal company that was right next door and that they end up kind of taking some space that we were really hoping to get.

 

You know, and and we actually had a a first rider refusal on it. You know, very early on when we moved into this building, you know, someone came along and they wanted it and we we just weren’t in a in a position to to to exercise our right there. And so they took it, you know, they built the whole thing out, like completely, you know, furnished it and everything. And then, you know, before we know it, like they’ve already gone out of business. You know, and it’s like, you know, apparently if you get into legal trouble, you should still hire a real lawyer. You know, I may maybe that won’t always be the case, but like

 

You know, again, I I’ve seen tons and tons of these companies, you know, who have already come and and and have this like this this promise of of AI is going to solve this, you know, th this particular problem or completely revolutionize this industry. And and and to some extent I I think it will make a big impact on on a lot of industries, if not every industry, but at the end of the day, like, you know, th there there is a lot of kind of you know hi hype and and buzz and you know, people are are are you know getting huge valuations, raising just boatloads of money.

 

you know, and pouring it into this thing, you know, and and and at the end of the day, I mean, like they often don’t have a lot to show for it and ended up not being a good idea and not not a good use of of investors’ money and capital. And so I I do think we’re starting to kind of see that swing back, you know, where we’re we’re not gonna just, you know, endlessly throw a bunch of money at at all these AI ideas. And and I think people are looking, you know, for the real, you know, tangible solutions that it’s solving.

 

You know, not not just this little chat chat bot thing that can reply to you and yada yada. Like what are the real solutions that it is delivering for your business and be very, very intentional. Like we don’t need, you know, I mean, again, Claude and and and and Chad, I mean, like they’re awesome, right? Like they’re great. They’re these kind of all-encompassing, you know, tools. But at the end of the day, like we’re gonna need very specific AI solutions. And and I see it kind of getting a lot more pointed. And and and again, the the other problem here is is

 

Eric Fortenberry (33:37.059)

You know, again, like the the the funding and and and and the cost to actually operate these AIs. Like I last I heard it was like for every single dollar that you spend with anthropic on Claude, they have to spend eighteen dollars. You know, so like the the the the economics here just don’t make sense. You know, so I tell everyone, hey, you know, why while it’s this, you know, free for all, just go and and and and use it and you know, other people are basically paying for you to use it, you know, but like that’s not sustainable.

 

And and when anthropic goes public, when open API goes public, like the the public is going to demand better economics here and and they’re going to expect the consumer and the user to pay for it or the cost to come down. And and and that’s why we see a ton of these data centers being built out. And you know, again, like I think we’re gonna kind of see both of these. And I think the cost will eventually, you know, after it goes up some more, is gonna hopefully come down and commoditize, you know, and and and probably.

 

you know, eventually, you know, this this stuff will be built in directly to our devices, you know, so that on our iPhone and on our Macs, like we can run our own, you know, AI engines and and and and and and use our own compute power instead of having to have everybody using everyone else’s data centers and compute power because there’s not enough and and and and the demand is just, you know, through the roof. And so, you know, we kinda have this this economic you know, issue that that’s gonna have to sort of resolve itself but before, you know, things get get a little bit better.

 

Todd Dawalt (35:03.97)

So let’s talk about one of the crowdsourced questions from the Facebook group. here’s one of the questions. How do you see the residential construction industry changing over the next three to five years? And how should construction business owners prepare for it? What do you think?

 

Eric Fortenberry (35:22.298)

great great great question you know i i I think at the end of the day you know we are going to continue to see the the the the consumer the the you know the the homeowners the the the end customer you know that they’re going to become more and more educated and informed about construction about you know what they want you know they’re doing a lot more you know of their own research ahead of time you know I mean again we’re we’re starting to hear you know

 

Homeowners are coming to the table with their own AI drawings and designs and plans. And, you know, again, it may be, you know, not feasible at all or realistic or even within their budget. But like, you know, I think that they’re going to continue to be more and more informed when they come into these conversations. They’re they’re gonna have done their due diligence, done their research, and I think they’re also going to expect more out of their contractors. You know, they’re they’re starting to realize that, you know, again, they have a choice in who they choose.

 

They have a choice in in the type of project they take on, you know, what what how much they want to spend, what they’re comfortable with. Like, you know, they they they are going to be expecting more from their contractors. They’re gonna expect transparency, they’re gonna expect trust, they expect good communication, quick turnaround, you know, and so ultimately what what I would say for for the contractors and and and the business owners out there, like it’s important that you continue to build a well-oiled machine and that you and your company.

 

Can operate at a very high level of efficiency, that you can be responsive to your clients, that you can answer the phone, that you can deliver great customer experience. And I would also encourage you to position yourself as the educator, as the thought leader. Be the one who is publishing the content that is helping to educate people. Because all these AIs, you know, Google, all the search, like it is ultimately consuming all of this content.

 

And and and and Google knows and and and AI knows who the experts are out there and they’re gonna start following along, consuming your content, and then regurgitating it right back to the consumer who’s searching and looking for those answers. And so when you are the one that is training and feeding this this content and this knowledge, then when those people find you, when your customer finds you, they are already gonna say, Wow, yeah, that’s

 

Eric Fortenberry (37:41.817)

That’s what I was thinking, and that’s what I was expecting. And this person’s on the same page with me. Like I think that’s how you’re gonna develop that instant rapport. And you’re gonna have a warm lead who has a lot better understanding. And you can just have a much more sophisticated and detailed conversation sooner in the process than you know having a totally cold lead who has no idea what they want or what to expect or what you know the budget should be like.

 

You know, I think that this is gonna really help sort of inform that end consumer and and and when you’re when you’re right there ready to to to to meet their needs and to help them get those projects done, it’s gonna help you to win those projects a lot quicker and be on the same page.

 

Todd Dawalt (38:20.694)

Yeah. Yeah. I what what I’ve seen and and the work I’ve done with some of the more progressive builders that are clients, they’re focused on customer experience. And but underneath that, they’re building trust. They’re putting systems in place to build trust because trust is not going up.

 

the more AI that’s out there, the more content that’s out there. It’s like, can I trust this or not? So there’s a a trust deficiency. So what the work I’ve done with our clients is let’s have a well-designed customer experience that goes during the build back through pre-construction and design. Even think about how do we want people to experience us during the marketing and the sales process and

 

Design that from end to end to build trust. Because buying a home or a remodeling project or a pool or a deck, it’s there’s so many horror stories out there. And the more you can build trust into your process so that people know you, like you, and trust you before they even talk to you, like you’re saying, publish content. Ideally, you would warm these prospects up, and by the time you talk to them,

 

They would have watched YouTube videos and Instagram reels and heard from your clients and they know you, they like you, they trust you. And a lot of that the sales process is happening, as you said, earlier and earlier. So much more of it is happening before they even contact the the contractor. So yeah, design your processes accordingly to to do that. That’s good advice.

 

All right, here’s another crowdsource question. It’s about the JobTread team culture. And this is personally, what I’ll say is every time I interact with the JobTread team, whether it’s on webinars at JobTread Connect, the work I’ve done as a JobTread partner, I am really impressed by the company culture. And I have worked with several software companies, and it’s not very few

 

Todd Dawalt (40:41.154)

It’s not always this way. Okay. So I’m curious what are one or two tactical, maybe non-negotiable things you guys do at Job Tread to reinforce this culture with your team? Because when I say culture, it is a customer-centric culture. There are some companies that are all about sales, there are some companies that are all about the technology. There’s some companies where it’s all about the CEO and their story and their brand. But my sense is that the Job Tread culture is.

 

It’s all about the customer. So what are a one or two tactical specific things you guys do to instill that culture with the team?

 

Eric Fortenberry (41:20.344)

Yeah, I mean I I I’d say it all comes down to building the best team that you possibly can. And, you know, you you have to hire the A plus players and you just cannot settle. You can never settle for anything less than the best people that you can possibly find and get onto your team. You know, and so what what what does it look like? You know, well, it’s it’s about finding people who are self motivated, they’re they’re they’re passionate people.

 

You know, they’re they’re committed to showing up every day and doing their best work because they want to do great work, because they care about others, because they want to help make an impact. And, you know, again, it it’s it’s at the end of the day, like, you know, paying someone a salary or whatever compensation plan you give them. I mean, like, that’s just table stakes this day, you know, that this day and age. Like it it’s it’s about how do you truly unlock someone’s potential and make sure that they are in the right seat.

 

you know, in in the right role doing doing what is, you know, just the best position for them given their skill sets, their passion, what they’re excited about. You know, and so we do a really good job taking our time to make sure that we are finding the right people and that we’re bringing them on. And then, you know, again, it’s it’s about creating this alignment. You know, your your your whole team needs to be, you know, on the same page and and they need to wholeheartedly believe in your mission.

 

your vision, your core values. And so, you know, this this this process that we go through. And again, it’s, you know, some people have called it the gauntlet. And, you know, it’s it’s very, very difficult to even get, you know, a a a a second or third round interview with us. And we go through, you know, hundreds and hundreds of applications. You know, but but but it’s about making sure that they are the right person. They they they need to understand our industry. Like we we try to only hire out of construction, you know, if you’re going to be customer facing, you know, whether you’re sales

 

Customer service, support, training. You know, we we we believe that we can’t teach you what it is like to be in construction. Like you you just you either innately get it, you’ve you’ve been there, you understand the chaos, you understand the the stresses, the frustrations, the anxiety, like because like this is a real thing that happens to to just about every construction company out there. And so like we can teach them the tools, the technology, the processes.

 

Todd Dawalt (43:26.262)

Mm-hmm.

 

Eric Fortenberry (43:45.721)

But like we we want people who just they they can empathize and immediately relate to the customer. And and when everyone has that mindset, you know, they they just we we we all have that kind of that that that common, you know, shared ground that that we get it. You know, when a customer brings up an issue, it’s it’s not us trying to figure out why is that such an issue, like we already understand how that’s such an issue, and then we can have very meaningful conversations with others on the team as well as with our clients about.

 

Well, what are some potential solutions to this issue? You know, just having everybody, you know, in the same boat, rowing the same direction, like it it it makes it that much more enjoyable. You’re gonna be able to accomplish your goals a lot faster. And, you know, I I I think that, you know, again, hiring the right people is so important, but but it’s also about focusing on building your culture. You know, at the end of the day, like, you know, it even if you can get the right people on the team, like you have to keep them.

 

And so for for us, I mean we we we are very big on transparency. You know, we we believe, you know, in in in like we have dashboards all over the office, like just everything is is is is public and available for everyone on the team to see. You know, we’ve we’ve tried to kind of gamify things, like you see the results from every single department. And you know, we we have these all hands on deck. We we we bring in a catered lunch every Monday and Wednesday. well on Wednesdays though, all of us get together. We’ve got a two-hour block from from 12 to 2.

 

You know, we we we sit down as an entire team, we break bread, and we go through each department and and we talk about our our wins, our challenges, you know, what’s coming up, like what features are we working on. How should we be talking about things? Like are are we on the same page? Are we communicating, you know, and and and and and working from the same playbook? And I think that just takes time to make sure that you’re you’re spending time with your team as a whole. And and I think a lot of companies don’t do that. They don’t

 

Todd Dawalt (45:34.45)

Mm-hmm.

 

Eric Fortenberry (45:41.913)

Take enough time out of the busy schedule to dedicate that time to build the team and to build the culture and to just like keep people on the same page because as as you grow and as you get more and more people, as you take on more and more jobs, as the business is doing well, it’s easy to stop taking that time for yourself and for your team. But like I I would argue it is even more important in those times that that you work together as a team.

 

You know, because again, it’s i we’re we’re not a bunch of individuals, even though we I would say the whole team is full of rock stars. You know, we work together as one team and one unit. And and so it just like finding ways to to build that camaraderie, build that culture is so important. And and and and honestly, I mean that’s that’s why I won Entrepreneur of the Year is because of our team and the team that we have built here. You know, all all credit goes to them for for their execution and you know, for us just continuing to to build a great product and community.

 

Todd Dawalt (46:37.174)

Yeah, it it is an impressive, impressive culture. It it is working. I’ve been around a lot of companies of all sizes. I’ve worked inside Fortune fifty companies and what you guys have done is very impressive. Very, very impressive. So you mentioned features. Let’s talk about that. if you pull back the curtain, we’ll talk about this a bit. how does the job tread team decide which features to create?

 

Eric Fortenberry (46:52.11)

Appreciate

 

Todd Dawalt (47:06.624)

Next.

 

Eric Fortenberry (47:07.864)

Great, great question. You know, and and and I think that at the end of the day, like what what what our customers would tell you and what what I would also tell you is like we are very in tune with our customers’ needs, with how they’re using Job Tread. You know, we we spend a lot of time, you know, face to face with them. You know, we we have, you know, every one one to two times per per month, we have, you know, up to a hundred customers coming in. We do these boot camps where we’re going through these trainings. Like we get to sit there and watch them use it, watch them learn it.

 

You know, we have tons of focus groups and and and you know kind of collaborations with our with our users as well, where you know advanced people can come in, they can share their feedback, give us ideas, you know, it’s like we we we we really build very strong relationships with our customers. Like I tell people I view our customers as our partners, and we are building this together. And so it it it it can be a lot of information though, and you know, ultimately in the very beginning, I was like literally manually

 

trying to track every single feature request and idea and and it got to the point where it’s like, okay, well this this isn’t sustainable. And so we created our feature request board. And so it’s directly in the help desk. It allows all of our users to go in there. They can hopefully they search and kind of find, you know, the an existing thing that they’re that they’re thinking about, because it very well likely has already been, you know, listed, and they can go and upvote those ideas. You know, the things that they want to see that they believe will make the most meaningful impact for them, they get to go upvote them. And if it doesn’t exist, they can submit their own

 

You know, we we we have a process where we’ll go review it and say, hey, like that’s similar to this, and we’ll merge them in and kind of let let it keep going that way. But like at the end of the day, like we we want to make sure that we are implementing the features that are gonna make the biggest impact for the most number of our users. You know, and and I think, you know, again as as a small aside, like our pricing model, you know, bodes very well for this because you know it it’s it’s basically it’s 199 bucks a month plus 20 bucks per user.

 

And you get access to everything. We don’t have tiered, you know, buckets where you know you gotta pay more to get more features and kind of keep going up and we keep trying to charge you more per year based on what features you wanna use, or if we roll things out, we’re gonna now charge them as add-ons. Like, you know, for us, it’s it’s about making sure that we don’t have to, you know, prioritize our R and D and our development based on what’s gonna make us the most money because we we don’t have those feature buckets.

 

Eric Fortenberry (49:24.6)

You know, a lot of companies are like, well, we’re gonna go build this thing, even though only 10% of our customers are gonna use it, it’ll make us the most money. You know, for us, it’s about making sure that we do what is going to improve job tread as a whole for as many people as we possibly can. And so I I think, you know, our our our users really appreciate that. And and and again, I I’m super active in our Facebook group. You know, it it has been a great source of of information, insight, you know, and so I just I think we’ve got a really great community and and collaboration going.

 

Where we get to learn and work directly with our customers.

 

Todd Dawalt (49:56.899)

Yeah, I I would agree. community is very strong. Some might look at it like a cult, you know, and the cult like following. And, you know, frankly, if if I saw a post on the Job Tread Facebook page that you said, hey, I’m gonna build a spaceship, let’s all meet at this one place and let’s get on the spaceship, I I bet hundreds of people would probably show up because they’re just they’re just that into it. But it’s

 

Seriously, the the community is incredible. not only getting information from JobTread, but there’s so much idea and resource sharing that happens among the community. It it really is impressive. So if you’re a JobTread user and you’re not on the Facebook group, you probably should be. I I’ve advised several of our clients to to get in there. it was recently announced that Co-Construct will be officially retired. This is

 

a sunset that most of us in this industry have wondered when it was coming since 2021. And the official announcement came out recently. and if you’re a co-construct user and you’re panicking, it’s not going away right now. You have, I think, in until April, you can create new projects until April of 2027. Don’t don’t quote me on that, but don’t panic. Don’t freak out if you haven’t seen that.

 

but it’s going away. And there will be we have quite a few clients who are still co construct users and there are probably quite a few others out there. Why why should co construct users consider migrating over to JobTread sooner rather than at the last possible minute?

 

Eric Fortenberry (51:41.039)

Yeah, great great great question. And you know, again, we’ve I think we’ve all seen the writing on the wall for for a while.

 

you know, Bang Bang Capital, you know, bought Builder Trend back in December twenty twenty and then they ended up buying Co Construct and rolling it all up into their, you know, March twenty twenty one. you know, and un unfortunately, you know, again, I I think this is very common, you know, private equity playbook. You know, you you go, you roll up a bunch of things, consolidate you know, they need to, you know, ultimately, you know, have a return and so you gotta cut a lot of the costs and they’re trying to salvage as much of the revenue. And so, you know, it was it was it was only a matter of time. you know, it it it it it

 

It’s definitely unfortunate though when when this stuff happens. And I and I and I hate I hate seeing this because again, like I know, you know, and and I know firsthand from from my first company. I mean, I I have literally lived through this. Like I I know that there are a lot of co-construct users out there who, you know, are are essentially, you know, very much ingrained with their processes, with the solutions that they have built. you know, Don Donnie and I have have have become, you know, we’ll we’ll say acquaintances. You I’ve I’ve talked to him every once in a while. I think I was actually the one that informed him of the new.

 

And I sort of felt a little bad, kind of, you I know it’s heartbreaking because I remember when I got the news about my first company, but you know, I I I think at the end of the day, though, a lot of people from even from very early on have have related us to what it was like working with Donnie and and Co-Construct. You know, they have always been a very product first company. You know, they they they they they they have you know very much focused on their customers and the product and building a great product and

 

You know, unfortunately, you know, and Donny Donny verbatim told me this. He’s like, you know, we we just got outsold. You know, Builder Trend, you know, focused very heavily on on sales. They’ve got, you huge bulk and hundreds of people that, you know, they smiled and dialed and they just, you they they just outsold them. And that’s that’s the hard cold hard truth of it. You know, it didn’t matter that co-construct had the better product because, you know, there was so much more awareness on on the Builder Trend side. And so, you know, what what’s been interesting is kind of seeing how the the challenges of of of trying to sort of force these co-construct

 

Eric Fortenberry (53:43.491)

you know, users over to Builder Trend has you know, again, it it it’s it’s never a good feeling or a good, you know, taste that that that that that you feel like you’re being forced

 

to to make a change. And then, you know, I think they had a lot of kind of issues where the data didn’t just cleanly migrate, you know, from one system to the other. And that’s why they struggled to get a lot of the customers to switch over. And it’s it’s been a never ending battle for them. And so, you know, at at this point, you know, again, I’m we’re coming up on you know, I think Bain’s five years, so they’re probably looking for for for what’s next. And and they can’t just kind of keep keep the Coke construct going because again, it it’s it’s it’s just at this point, you know, costing them a lot more than than they’re willing to keep spending. And so

 

you know, with with these users that are that are in this position of, you know, they’re they’re being forced over and and and ultimately, you know, it’s it’s a price increase. They now have I guess they call it their annual production volume, which, you know, essentially means that, you know, Builder Trend’s gonna charge you based on how much you know you sell every year. you know, and and and again, in in my opinion, that’s a very tough model. I mean it’s the Pro Core model, you know, the the large commercial GCs, you know, again, I I I don’t know, it kind of blows my mind that people would agree to that, but you know, hey, it’s it’s to each their own. but I think that, you know, we have had so many co-constructions

 

People over the years have come over here. And I would argue they have made a very big impact on our product, you know, because they have given us that feedback along the way and we could tell how well thought out a lot of that functionality was in Co-Construct. And so we have been able to incorporate that feedback over the last several years. Where, you know, these people would tell you, like, I mean, it is, you know, the best alternative for them because we are set up to mimic those processes that they had already spent all that time.

 

know, building out and and and co construct and

 

Eric Fortenberry (55:25.388)

And so, you at the end of the day, what why switch now? I mean, I again it’s it’s it’s never good to to be in a situation where like you now have a a clock and and and every day that that clock is ticking, you know, you you are losing time. And so it’s better to make a transition on your own time instead of someone else’s time. And so, you know, what I encourage people to do is is you know, at the end of the day, what would be optimal is if you could finish out your jobs where you start them.

 

And so what that means is that you want to as as quickly as you can start new jobs on your chosen platform going forward.

 

Whether it’s job tread, whether it’s builder trend or something else, like, you know, you want to take the time now where you can have that overlap. You know, that’s gonna give you, you know, the the most amount of time. And again, we’re we’re we’re now counting down, you know, but like that will let you, you know, kind of run some jobs side by side and understand the differences and and be able to have the time to get your data over and get it set up the way that you want it, to get your team comfortable with it. You know, it’s it’s just better to have the time since we are we’re we are now you know.

 

kind of running out of time, you know, to to go ahead and start thinking about what does the future look like because for better or for worse, it’s it’s not gonna be with co-construct. I it is it is going away. That’s all there is to it. And so you know I I would hope that you know anyone

 

Who is using CoConstruct would go take the time to explore other alternative solutions. Builder Trend is not your only answer. And we think that we have a very comparable product that would be the best alternative to CoConstruct. And our team would be honored for the opportunity, even just to show it to you and help you understand what it would be like to use Job Tread. And at the end of the day, though, again, I I feel for y’all. I hate to see a private equity come in here and just jack up the

 

Eric Fortenberry (57:15.056)

price and and and and force the hand on this stuff. But, you know, it it is what it is and h hopefully they will they will find us to be a much better partner, a long term partner. You know, we’re going on over four years now of not increasing our price.

 

You know, I feel like 199 bucks is is fair, it’s affordable. A solo owner operator is not paying the same thing as a 50 or 100 person company, you know, it it it scales with you, you know, but our our goal is is to be your long-term partner. And I believe that we’ve created a very, you know, a very amazing community where we can add more value than just the software that you’re getting.

 

Todd Dawalt (57:28.876)

Yeah.

 

Todd Dawalt (57:47.117)

Yeah, yep. Well said. And one piece of advice I would add to that, if you are n now a Co-Construct user who has a transition clock running, look at this as an opportunity to upgrade your process. resist the urge just to take your current process. If you’ve been using Co-Construct, which hasn’t been updated in quite some time, resist the urge to just take that and

 

dump it into a new piece of software. This is an opportunity to look at the big picture, look at how do you want to run your business, where do you want your business to be in a few years, and look for the constraints, fix those constraints and des redesign your process and your business before you import it into another piece of software. that’s that’s what piece of advice I would have for those co-construct users. So speaking of private equity

 

Eric Fortenberry (58:39.256)

Great advice.

 

Todd Dawalt (58:44.028)

At Jobtread Connect, you were pretty vocal about your lack of interest, maybe vehement opposition to ever selling job tread. I’m curious, and I’ve heard people I in conversations, I heard people say, Yeah, I was talking to Eric, and he’s got this, he showed me all of these emails he gets from all of these people, and he just never responds. You’re opposed, not interested to selling Job Tread.

 

Eric Fortenberry (59:05.974)

Mm.

 

Todd Dawalt (59:13.495)

Why is that?

 

Eric Fortenberry (59:15.064)

You know, look, I I at the end of the day I I’m I’m I’m very fortunate. I I’ve already, you know, built and sold a company. I’m

 

I’m not in this for the money. You I was too young to retire at the age of 32. You know, I I think at this point in my life, what is most important to me is is to give back and to help as many other people to become successful entrepreneurs, build successful businesses. Like I have seen the fruit of of the labor, of the hard work, you know, the grind. I mean, I I I know what it takes to build a successful business. And, you know, I feel very fortunate. I have had, you know, some great mentors and coaches in my life, you know.

 

my my dad being my my number one mentor for me you know and and and I just I I feel very compelled to to pay it forward and I want to help as many others out there. Like this this this isn’t about you know maximizing our our profits and you know driving as much sales and building as as as big of a community as we can other than like we want to help as many people as we possibly can and and and like I like I I I shared earlier I mean like you know there’s so much private equity that comes in you know to this market and it’s it’s happening with even with

 

With construction companies. I mean look at you know, Renovo and like

 

Look at all of these times where like, you know, it’s it’s just to them it’s it’s it’s a gamble, you know, and and and they’re just gonna go and they’re gonna roll up a bunch of companies, they’re gonna mash them all together, you know, kind of disregard all the culture, disregard, you know, the differences and say, hey, we got to get everybody on the same page and we need to maximize our revenue and profitability so we can have as big of a return to our shareholders. And like, I I just I don’t feel like that’s that that is what is is is is is the best for the end users, for the customers, for our for our employees. You know, I want to keep that freedom.

 

Eric Fortenberry (01:00:56.204)

And that ability to let us focus on doing what we believe is right and is best for our customers, you know, and and best for our employees. You know, I I feel like we we have that duty to to to be able to keep this this this this

 

this notion of this this greed out of here. You know, like we don’t we we don’t need to make a bunch of billionaires even more billions. You know, we need to help the small, medium-sized businesses who are often getting price gouged by their software and by their, you know, vendors and suppliers as as, you know, again, as as more money goes into these companies, the the the the immediate thing that happens is the price goes up and the end customers paying for that. And and and I’m just I’m very adamant that like, you know, software should be fair, it should be affordable, and it should work for

 

all size businesses. There’s no reason that you know a solo owner operator can’t have the same tools and the same chance at success as somebody who’s got, you know, a team or has got you know some investors or has got you know a track record. Like, you know, again, like we we should all have an equal chance to come in here and to build a great business. And I think there is enough demand, you know, I think there’s more demand than there is supply.

 

And I just I I want to see the small guys, the small businesses, the medium-sized businesses have that same fighting chance as your big dogs out there. Because ultimately, like I believe the small businesses, the family-run businesses, the people who care. When you build a small and mighty team that cares, that’s how you’re gonna deliver exceptional customer experiences. And that’s how we’re gonna change this industry. It’s from the ground up, from the bottom up. You know, it’s the small businesses that are the bulk.

 

Of this economy.

 

Eric Fortenberry (01:02:38.796)

You know, it it is entrepreneurs. And so like I just I I feel like they need somebody who’s going to represent them and to champion them. And you know, again, I think this is one of the reasons I was selected for Entrepreneur of the Year is because of how passionate I am about helping those guys. And I just I I know that, you know, once you let the fox into the hen house, you know, it everything changes. And so I’m just you know, I got my auto reply. It just says, thanks for reaching out. We’re busy growing and scaling our business, don’t have a need for an investment, and just you know, it’s it’s it’s something that you know I think has has been really, really important.

 

important to us to to stay true and stay focused.

 

Todd Dawalt (01:03:11.488)

Yeah. Well it it definitely comes through the messaging. It comes through and Job Tread Connect. This was one of the questions that somebody posted in the Facebook group. Is Eric gonna sell Job Tread? And there were even people who jumped in and commented about your your approach to that. so it’s working. The message comes through.

 

I’ve mentioned Job Tread Connect a couple of times. for those of you who didn’t attend, you need to be there. It’s it’s an incredible experience. So a couple of quick questions. One last question for you before we we wrap up here and we tell people where to go if they want to learn out, learn more. What is something you believe to be true about business that some people might think is unconventional, maybe even a little crazy?

 

Eric Fortenberry (01:04:02.914)

Good good question.

 

I think the first thing that comes to mind is is just radical transparency. And I I I got this from Marcus Sheridan, you know, when when I when I when I first heard him speak and then I read his book, They Ask You Answer. He’s he’s since written another edition of it called Endless Customers. But you know, I’ll I’ll never forget several years ago

 

You know, he he he he directly spoke to me when he said, you know, if you are ever doing something that is is essentially, you know, you’re you’re hiding information or you’re doing something because you don’t want your competition to find out or or whatever it may be, like you are actually doing yourself and your prospects and your customers a huge disservice. And and and that really resonated with me because like we were we used to have all of our product, you know, live updates and our what what I called customer town halls, like they were just for our users. And and at the end of the day though, like he was so right.

 

And we just had this huge transition where we we now open up everything. Anyone can come to any of any of our product update town halls. Like we we publish every single thing on YouTube. And like we’ve got now hundreds and hundreds of videos. Like, you know, if you if you come to our office, like you see all of the transparency, you see everyone’s numbers, you see everything. You see our wins, our losses. You know, like it is, it is just like, you know, I believe in this radical transparency that when everyone has all of the information that they need to make an

 

informed decision, then we are going to get the best customers who are the right fit for us. We’re going to get the right team members who are the right fit for us. Like it’s just this notion of like, you know, like answer the hard questions. You know, be honest, be transparent. If if if if if if if your product or your solution is not a good fit for someone, like tell them.

 

Eric Fortenberry (01:05:48.055)

And tell them why and give them a referral. You know, I believe that, you know, for contractors, I see this all the time. Like they think that they can’t, you know, go network with people in their local community because they can’t, you know, share information. Their competition might find out. Like, I would actually argue the opposite. Like you can work with your competition. Like when you understand your competition and and again understand your strengths and weaknesses and their strengths and weaknesses, like you set up a relationship where whenever you get a deal, maybe you’re not good at the bigger jobs, you could send it over to them, and maybe they don’t want the small.

 

smaller jobs or vice versa, like you can establish these relationships where everybody can win.

 

And and and so I I think that there’s this notion of like, you know, we we have to like you know hide all of our dirty secrets and we have to trick people and we have to, you know, be the only one out there and like that’s not the case. Like, you know, it’s about making sure that you are the right solution for the customer and giving them as much information as you can because nobody wins if you enter into an agreement with a customer and it’s not a good fit. You know, it’s just it it’s that simple. And so, you know, I I I encourage people, you know, even I hear this a lot on their team, like, we can’t share.

 

Our profit margins, you know, our gross profit with our with with whoever it is on our team because then they’re gonna ask for more money and things like that. It’s like, no, you got to get your team properly incentivized and aligned with hitting your goals. And if you can’t give your team members, you know, the the the information that they need to know if you’re hitting your goals, then you’re gonna struggle to hit your goals. You know, it’s about being transparent and working with.

 

you know, all of the information that you have at your disposal to make the best possible decisions you can. And so, you know, I I’m an open book. I’m I I just I I run that way. I I I operate that way. And and and I would encourage others to to just think about how can you be more transparent to the point where it’s it’s it’s radical transparency. You will be shocked at how that will help you attract people to join your team, attract clients to to come on board, to attract customers because they can trust you and they know that you want them to win and that everyone is aligned.

 

Todd Dawalt (01:07:48.705)

Yeah, that’s great advice. Such great advice. This has been great stuff. I assume if people want to find out more, the best place would be for them to go simply to jobtread dot com. Is that right?

 

Eric Fortenberry (01:08:01.06)

Yeah.

 

Yeah, I mean we got got a ton of information on our website, you know, our YouTube channel, all of our socials. you know, feel free to to, you know, anyone can feel free to reach out to me anytime. I’m real big on Facebook, LinkedIn, you know, happy to to to answer any questions. But our our team is awesome as well. You know, again, just even even go on to our website, click the schedule demo button up there. Like we we would love the opportunity to to show you how job tread can help you. And and again, make sure it’s a good fit. Make sure that you know you’re you’re in the right position, the right time. Like we we know it has to work.

 

work for both of us and we’d be happy to take the time to help you explore this opportunity.

 

Todd Dawalt (01:08:36.246)

Yeah. So whether you’re a co-construct user and you need to transition over, maybe you’re not using any sort of system, or you’re not happy with your current system. I can tell you we’ve had quite a few clients who’ve transitioned from no platform, other platforms to Job Tred and have been very happy. So I can I can assure you it’s it’s good stuff. So yeah, if you if you have questions about it, feel free to contact me as well.

 

And but the best place is is simply to go to jobtread.com. So Eric, great stuff, man. Thank you for the work you’re doing. Congratulations on the success. It’s been a lot of fun to watch and inspiring to watch. And I appreciate your your dedication to the industry, to to doing something, frankly, you you probably don’t have to do. And we need more people like that. So thank you for the work you do. Thank you for taking the time to be on here.

 

Eric Fortenberry (01:09:34.006)

My pleasure. And you know, Todd, I appreciate you and everything that you do as well because again, I I know firsthand the impact that that coaching can provide, that that mentor, that insight that you bring to all these contractors’ lives and to their business. I mean, that that is exactly what people need is to invest in those systems and get, you know, your help getting them set up because it it it really does make a world of difference. So thank you for for all of your effort. You know, I know sometimes it can be a thankless position here for for all of us, but like man, it it makes a big impact. So I appreciate you.

 

Todd Dawalt (01:10:03.648)

Yeah, thank you for that.